More from yesterday's conversation ...
Me: "If God says you have to ask to get, and I ask but don't get, what am I doing wrong?
Bri: "One of a couple things - asking for the wrong stuff or at least asking for the right stuff and it isn't time yet."
Ok - I get that, but what if I'm asking for something that's not intrinsically wrong - like a job that'll support my family? I can't imagine how there's anything wrong with that. Is it that God wants me to be broke? Or, as somebody suggested, He's waiting for me to be grateful for what I do have? And if that's what He's waiting for, how on earth do I prove to God I really grateful for what I do have (and I am)? Or is that even possible?
Truth be told - it's 99.999% financial woes that are causing me so much duress. I'm not asking God for the winning lottery ticket, a settlement, or to find a basket of cash on the front lawn. I'm asking for a job - something I can work at to earn. Or is that in and of itself a finger in God's eye; an attempt to control something that only He can control?
Bri: "We shouldn't expect Him to give us stuff He has not said He'll give us."
I get what you're saying about the Audi, but what did He say about a job? There's a verse that says something to the effect of "If a man works not nor shall he eat." How does that work if the work itself isn't presenting itself? Or is God just breaking me in that area, too? Do I have too much pride still, even after everything?
Bri : "In Isaiah He TELLS us to "bother" Him with prayers."
So am I not praying enough then? Do I not have God's attention? Do I want God's full attention? Aren't we supposed to regard Him with fear, trembling and awe right before we fall prostrate before Him in reverence? It seems to me that "bothering" Him (an all-powerful Creator of the Universe) with comparatively petty requests goes against that concept.
Me: "I hate to say that, but I feel any relationship to work both ways."
Bri: "So here's what I really wanted to comment on. This is an easy (and common) thought, and I feel like it's a subtly dangerous one. Here's why: He isn't your buddy....[or] your father....the relationship between you and the being I just described is simply different than any other one - and it certainly isn't a "give and take".
Well, crap. That's pretty much all I know. If God would throw me a bone (in this case, a job) it might reinforce that God at least likes me. To tell you the truth, I feel like God isn't all that interested in me most days, or that while He loves be (because He has to) he doesn't like me very much. And that's fine - I give Him a lot of grief, I guess. Hell - *I* don't like me very much sometimes. But if God loves me, or even likies me, wouldn't he show it from time to time in a way that *I* might understand? Or is that just another instance of the gap between Man and God being too vast for Man to comprehend, so we just miss it?
Doesn't the Bible tell us to approach Him like children, though? Or to think of Him like a person? Or, at the very least, seek the kind of relationship with Him that we'd have with a person? Didn't we learn that in church? Was the whole analogy of Jesus sitting in your living room waiting for you to spend some time with him (through prayer & studying the Bible) just a farce, then? Because that's just about all I know about it, man - expecting me to know or to seek a relationship with Somebody unknowable & incomprehensible to me seems like a terrible double standard. How does a flea comprehend Stephen Hawking?
Bri: "He intimately cares about you and will put your life where it needs to be for your....long term good. Which is the hard part when all we see is short term, you know?"
I concur and dislike this statement, but I get it.
Anyway...more thoughts?
Does any of this make sense? Am I being heretical or blasphemous? Am I the only one that feels this way or has these questions?
One more thing, too: I know why I'm constantly asking these questions. or, to put it more accurately, I know why I feel like I always have to have the answers - it's a control thing. I get that.
See, if I feel like I know, or if that I have all of / some of the answers (even if it's only to questions or issues on MY side of the street) I can better control my end of things, even if that's all I can control, so that I can still direct at least my half of the equation to the best of my ability, and maybe even (somehow) affect the outcome accordingly.
I'm hoping that more of a trying-to-do-the-right-thing issue than a being-a-manipulator issue.
Anyway, that's it for tonight.
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
9 comments:
First, I apologize for the garrulous, loquacious, and overall verbose nature of the previous comment. I posted a good one and freaking blogger wigged out and failed. I then had to go back and try to retype what I was saying while trying to work and it ended up wordy, rambling, and probably slightly heretical in places. Also I didn't pray before I submitted it, which is probably also a problem.
I'll try to be more concise this time.
Ok - I get that, but what if I'm asking for something that's not intrinsically wrong - like a job that'll support my family?
A not uncommon question for anybody who is in trouble. In the dark days of, what, 03? I could not in any way come up with ONE good reason why He would do what He did to me. He had them, though. Lots of them which I will not expound on here.
I think you hit on the answer yourself about this here and in your last answer and it's all tied up in what I was really trying to say before. This relationship can't be controlled by you. What I was driving at before was: the person who just invented out of thin air the idea of deoxyribonucleic acid and how many degrees it should twist on itself and then twist again can't be tricked into giving you what you want because you happened to, say, not-yell-at-your-wife-today (or insert whatever "good" action.)
And why? Because He loves you too much to give you the scorpion.
So am I not praying enough then? Do I not have God's attention? Do I want God's full attention? Aren't we supposed to regard Him with fear, trembling and awe right before we fall prostrate before Him in reverence? It seems to me that "bothering" Him (an all-powerful Creator of the Universe) with comparatively petty requests goes against that concept.
First: you DO have His full attention because you are that important to Him. Remember it isn't works - you can't "earn" any more attention or love from Him. You currently have the maximum possible; all the way up to 11. We're absolutely supposed to approach Him as children (simply), but we're also given the privilege via Christ to approach the throne with boldness.
I believe the fear verse you're referencing is not the 'fear' that you would have as a zombie sinks his filthy teeth into your neck - IIRC it's better translated as a deep respect of grasping exactly Who you're talking to. We're supposed to glorify Him (and plead the blood of Christ when judgement day comes) because He is who He is - not run scared like cockroaches when you flip on the lights.
Bottom line - it sounds to me that you've already gotten that you're trying to control someone who cannot be controlled; who already knows who you are, what you've done, what you need, what you will become. Seems to me that you've gotta learn how to live purposefully in what He's got for you today and trust that the Almighty has a plan for you.
God loves you, man. He does.
Just a question because this is where I fall short in my prayer life. When I look back on my conversations with God, did I spend most of my time in giving thanks for what He has provided, or did I spend most of my prayer time in what He should or could be doing for me, covered with what I think he should be doing for others (just to show I am unselfish). I struggle with when I come before God, it is to be with the faith of a child, not the selfserving nature of a child. The faith of a chid see the poop in the yard and just knows dad has a puppy somewhere for me!
First, I respect your honesty. Not many people or this honest with themselves and others.
I completely understand the feeling of thinking that God isn’t interested in me most days…but I have to say that when I dig, it is me that isn’t so interested. I do not trust Him with what He is doing. I think it should go this way when He is saying it will go that way. It also comes down to love.
Matthew 20:37-38 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.
Do I do that…not so much. I respect Him, I am in awe of Him, and I am very grateful for everything He has done. The problem is that I have Idols that come before God. Money, people, food…etc.
Psalm 117:1-2 Praise the LORD, all nations! Extol him, all peoples! For great is his steadfast love toward us, and the faithfulness of the LORD endures forever. Praise the LORD!
I believe we are to go to Him as Children, but just as when we were kids we didn’t always understand why our parents said no or did what they did. When I am in the mode of “Why” and “When” and even “How” I go to Job 38-42 and it is the kick I need.
Job 40:6-9 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: "Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right? Have you an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?
Bad and good things happen all the time but God and His love never change. We have to abide in that love even in the hard times because I think that will make the hard times…well less hard. I have just found Psalm 136 and LOVE it.
Psalm 136:23-26 It is he who remembered us in our low estate, for his steadfast love endures forever; and rescued us from our foes, for his steadfast love endures forever;he who gives food to all flesh, for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of heaven, for his steadfast love endures forever.
Right now you may not feel like He has remember you…but the Bible says that He does and since the Bible is Truth…so if you are feeling that way, it is a lie and the Bible and God are telling the Truth.
“Grace humbles because grace means you didn't deserve it, grace means you wouldn't have achieved it, grace means you couldn't have earned it.” -Paul David Tripp
-CM
First, I respect your honesty. Not many people or this honest with themselves and others. I have felt that way and still feel that way sometimes but God is showing me some of the issues.
Matthew 20:37-38 And he said to him, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment.
Do I do that…not so much. I respect Him, I am in awe of Him, and I am very grateful for everything He has done. The problem is that I have Idols that come before God. Money, people, food…etc.
Psalm 117:1-2 Praise the LORD, all nations! Extol him, all peoples! For great is his steadfast love toward us, and the faithfulness of the LORD endures forever. Praise the LORD!
I believe we are to go to Him as Children, but just as when we were kids we didn’t always understand why our parents said no or did what they did. When I am in the mode of “Why” and “When” and even “How” I go to Job 38-42 and it is the kick I need.
Job 40:6-9 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind and said: "Dress for action like a man; I will question you, and you make it known to me. Will you even put me in the wrong? Will you condemn me that you may be in the right? Have you an arm like God, and can you thunder with a voice like his?-
Bad and good things happen all the time but God and His love never change. We have to abide in that love even in the hard times because I think that will make the hard times…well less hard.
Psalm 136:23-26 It is he who remembered us in our low estate, for his steadfast love endures forever; and rescued us from our foes, for his steadfast love endures forever;he who gives food to all flesh, for his steadfast love endures forever. Give thanks to the God of heaven, for his steadfast love endures forever.
Right now you may not feel like He has remember you…but the Bible says that He does and since the Bible is Truth…so if you are feeling that way, it is a lie and the Bible and God are telling the Truth.
“Grace humbles because grace means you didn't deserve it, grace means you wouldn't have achieved it, grace means you couldn't have earned it.” -Paul David Tripp
-CM
Sorry, it posted twice, I thought it said the first one was too long.
Ian, I love you. These are good things to blog about, btw. And you're not being heretical.
The purpose of prayer is not to receive things from God. Jesus prayed 3 times in the garden before His death that the cup would pass from Him and it did not. The purpose was for God the Father to strengthen Jesus for what lie ahead. So if the purpose is not to receive, what is the point?
God has promised to take care of us. This is a long quote from Matt. 6 but it's more fun to read the whole thing:
"And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin. Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them. But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well. Therefore do not worry about tomorrow, for tomorrow will worry about itself. Each day has enough trouble of its own."
If God knows our needs, then why are we supposed to ask Him for things we need?
Psalm 31 (which everyone needs to read) has David in some really tough times. He twice says in the face of really difficult circumstances, "But I trust in you, LORD"
God cares about us. I know this because the Bible tells me so, "Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you." (1 peter 5:7). It's also natural to have anxiety or else this verse would not be so popular.
So we have God who knows all we need and we have anxiety or worry about not having the things we need. Where's the disconnect? It's not on God's end. It's never on God's end. He cannot change. Doesn't change. He's never wrong, never makes mistakes, never says, "oops.". He is set apart from us, holy. He's perfect. Like really perfect perfect.
Psalm 119:68 says, "You are good and do good, teach me Your statutes"
The questions I am constantly confronted with are whether:
1. I believe that God is really good and
2. Do I trust Him.
oops...too long...more later.
Good grief - booo blogger!
Here's the rest of my too many words:
You said: "If God would throw me a bone (in this case, a job) it might reinforce that God at least likes me. To tell you the truth, I feel like God isn't all that interested in me most days, or that while He loves be (because He has to) he doesn't like me very much."
How much does God love you, Ian? How much? How vast is His love for you? It's not a matter of like, it's a matter of love. Paul prays this for the Ephesians:
"And I pray that you, being rooted and established in love, may have power, together with all the Lord’s holy people, to grasp how wide and long and high and deep is the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge—that you may be filled to the measure of all the fullness of God."
You don't now God very well, Ian and I'm not sure what you're doing to get to know Him. But He knows you. And He loves you. He likes you. He likes that you plan for Zombie attacks and desire to protect your family. He made you that way.
Your side of the street is to trust God and seek Him. The more you seek Him the better you know Him and the easier it is to trust Him. Our trust in God is directly related to how well we know Him. Your job is to to get on the plane and trust God to get you where you need to go, not tell the pilot how to fly. That's a daily thing. I struggle with it too. Every day. And every day I have to choose to seek Him more. I do this by studying His word, praying and serving. It's not a big secret.
Anyway...I think this was way too long. I sure wish I could just sit on the porch and talk with you. I would probably say a lot less.
Post a Comment