As of late, I've been more and more conflicted about this. I have three schools of thought here:
#1) Give your way out of poverty - give all the money you can to God so that He can return your tithes 30, 60 or 100 fold. Give the firstfruits of your labor; the first check you write, even before your mortgage - and sacrifice it to God to show that you trust in Him to provide for your financial (physical) needs. Test God on this and see - this is the only time the Bible says to test God, right? Trust in God and believe that investing in His kingdom can supernaturally bring increase to your financial holding here on earth as God rewards your faithfulness. You can't take it with you, but you can send it on ahead and reap eternal rewards for your obedience. (I've heard this from at least two different pastors, not to mention a lot of very shady televangelists.)
Now, personally, I think this is GREAT - *IF* - you are doing OK financially and you have enough to pay your bills, etc. When your paycheck doesn't even come close to paying off what you need to survive, much less get out of debt, this gets a LOT trickier.
Also, on a personal note, I tithed just a bit over 10% of what we got paid on Sunday, and now I'm $60 overdrawn. I'm just not seeing the return the pastors have promised me, man. That little thing called MATH seems to be getting in the way. God created MATH, right? You can't get around MATH. It seems that the natural consequences of giving your money away are fairly inescapable, like gravity or physics, and God doesn't seem to be bending those laws for me at the moment.
Except the Bible very clearly teaches us that Jesus tithed, and seemed to be a be a big fan of tithing, and told other people to tithe, and if I want to be like Jesus (and I do, for whatever that's worth) then I should tithe as well - right?
#2) Take care of yourself and your family as best you can, pay your bills and do your best to get out of debt whenever you can. God can get by on whatever you can spare because He's God and can do more with your money than you can. When you are blessed financially, share that blessing.
#3) Put EVERY penny you have towards getting out of debt. This is the moral high ground, right? You can't give financial offerings to God when you're not right with others financially, right? God can get by without your money, and it wouldn't be ceremonially clean money anyway - right?
I mean, if you're not paying back the debt you owe you're STEALING from the person (or entity) you owe money to, right? And in order to keep from STEALING money, you have to pay it back as fast as humanly possible - but to what extent? How much do you take away from yourself and your family to pay off debt? Do you skip out on vacations to pay off debt? How about eating out? How about eating at all?
But wait - isn't it all God's money anyway? So if we don't tithe, who are we stealing from?
Is it more or less OK to steal from Capital One -or- is it more or less OK to steal from God by denying Him the first 10% of what He says in His book to return to Him to further His kingdom?
And if you only have $20, who gets it? God, the creditor, or do you buy food and a new tire so you can continue to drive to work?
Answer me these, please.
6 comments:
Might I be so bold as to say "hold on a sec"?
I may be speaking out of turn, but if we're talking one day you're legit wondering if God loves you as much as he does somebody who has a ministry or somebody fabulously wealthy.. shouldn't we clear that sort of überbasic thing up before worrying about tithing junk?
My opinion is - let's get that one settled before talking about money. If for no other reason but organization of thoughts. It might just be me, but that's sort of like trying to build a house's roof but there isn't a concrete foundation laid yet or even walls for that matter.
(And if that is a short term question, then just pay your creditors for the time being. heh heh.)
I'm breaking my own suggestion here, but this makes my head hurt.
give all the money you can to God so that He can return your tithes 30, 60 or 100 fold
Man.
GOD IS NOT A 401k.
I know this is the internet and it's not nice to use all caps. But I don't give a rip what freaking osteen or whoever is telling you. that is a lie straight from satan. Full stop, end of story. It is unbiblical, unethical, and totally fills me to the brim with frustration and sadness to know that those sorts of people exist to fleece people in the name of Jesus.
Two things come to mind right off the bat...
1. We learned in our Sunday School class on giving and stewardship that the command to tithe was under the law. After Christ died on the cross, it became more a command to give generously... whatever that may mean for each individual person.
And it's not limited to money...it's time and energy and other resources...whatever God has blessed you with, give of that to bless others.
That makes me think of how God has blessed you with the ability to play the trumpet and to write. You could give back to God in those areas by blessing others and not a single penny would be spent! And I encourage you to do so = )
2. The sacrifice that pleases God is one that you WANT to make...that you're HAPPY to make..."a cheerful giver". If you're under some kind of compulsion, I believe that sacrifice will not be pleasing to God (or not AS pleasing, perhaps) and forgive me if I hurt you, if you're giving simply to receive in return, that "sacrifice" will be a stench in God's nose.
I would personally tell you:
- give to God cheerfully whatever you are willing to give without expecting a single thing in return... giving simply out of a grateful heart
- pay your debts
- take care of your family
- live on an economy budget...and yes, I believe that means no vacations involving hotel rooms or admission fees...a nice drive in the country or camping at a state park would be a good compromise
- eat out sparingly, also buy real food instead of processed semi-prepared food
- in everything give thanks! work on developing a thankful heart whether or not God ever gives you an easy life down here on earth...following Paul's example of "being content in whatever situation I'm in"
- run more...endorphins make you happy! hahahahaha I just threw that one in there to try and get you to smile = )
I hope this is encouraging to you!
Ian, I think one should always be aware of the filters that they view the Bible through. If you ever go to songfacts.com and read the stuff people write about what some song means to them, you see that their interpretations are all over the place, because they filter the meaning through whatever they happen to be going through at the time.
You seem to equate service to God very strongly to tithing, or at least tithing seems to be a part of service that you put a lot of emphasis on in your head. Why? Well, because when one is in debt and having trouble paying bills and such; money tends to be something they think about a lot.
Your last blog post was about getting to know God more. Focus on that. If you don't know how you should be giving, don't worry about it. I will never have said this enough: God loves you as you are right now. God loved you even through your 20's. Think about the lowest moment in your life; not the worst thing that happened to you, but the worst you ever were. God loved you enough in that moment to die for you. He is not now going to look at you and say, "Wow, Ian, you aren't giving me nearly enough money. You suck."
Romans 3:20-24 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it — the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus
Your worry about whether you are doing the right thing and following the rules properly. Does this bring you peace or guilt? I imagine it makes you feel guilty. At least that's what the verses above would suggest. You don't need to feel guilty anymore, so stop doing this to yourself. You are blameless now, no matter what you do, so be at peace. That is what God wants from you. You cannot serve Him if you are burdened with guilt and worries about whether you are following all the rules properly. Relax, get to know God, pray, and focus on acting in love and charity towards others and telling others about Christ's love. As you go forward, you will start seeing more ways to love others, and some of those ways may involve giving money to the church. Cool. Please understand this: God is the one who will make you a better man. It is what He started when He redeemed you, and it is what He will continue to do if you relax and listen. You are nowhere near as good at creating a godly man out of yourself as God is, so leave it to the expert and learn to be patient and listen and read and pray.
Ephesians 1:11-12 In Him also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things according to the counsel of His will, that we who first trusted in Christ should be to the praise of His glory.
(You should totally read all of Ephesians, because it is pretty cool)
God has preordained that you, as a believer, will glorify Him. That's awesome and it takes a lot of the pressure off of you.
I think your brother Brian is on the right path toward an answer. You seem to be looking for an answer and don't know the question to ask. Your posts tell the story of a person caught in the book of Job. Did God ever give Job the kind of answer he was looking for? The truth is that Job and you always had the answer and it just was not the one either of you want to accept. God loves you, God is sovereign, He work all things for good, for those that are called acording to His name. The new testement writers put a bunch of bitters on that message and add "count it all joy when the world stomps on you" (my pharaphrase). Wisdom of this world says happiness and peace is found in not haveing troubles, and haveing all your heart desires of the good things of this world. Look at what Jesus taught about who is happy (blessed), you know that teaching called the sermon on the mount. I agree with you and Job and about a million other suffering Christians out there, this is not the answer I want to hear. God seems unfair to tell his kids not only suck it up and live with it, but to smile and be joyful with it. The only way to do it is to KNOW the God of the Bible.
Ditto everything.
God wants your heart, mind, soul and strength. Giving money is merely the outward manifestation of inward gratitude.
Next time the pastor preaches on "return" ask him for a $1,000 loan. Jesus said to give to those in need, give and don't expect to be paid back. Try that and see what he says. I am totally serious.
Your challenge in this is to apply the wisdom that the folks above have given - wisdom you asked for.
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